= ReviewerMeeting20081209 =

== summary ==


== log ==

{{{
Dec 08 22:00:09 <barry>	#startmeeting
Dec 08 22:00:09 <MootBot>	Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is barry.
Dec 08 22:00:09 <MootBot>	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
Dec 08 22:00:24 <barry>	hello everyone and welcome to this week's asiapac reviewers meeting.  who's here today?
Dec 08 22:01:43 <barry>	mwhudson_, jml, thumper ?
Dec 08 22:01:52 <jml>	barry: !
Dec 08 22:01:58 <thumper>	hi
Dec 08 22:02:01 <mwhudson_>	hellooo
Dec 08 22:02:02 <barry>	hi!
Dec 08 22:02:09 *	mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson
Dec 08 22:02:16 <barry>	how is everyone today?
Dec 08 22:02:21 <thumper>	frustrated
Dec 08 22:02:33 <barry>	thumper: dang, what's up?
Dec 08 22:02:58 <thumper>	barry: [testfix] annoyances, and the way most of the email processing is hardcoded to malone
Dec 08 22:03:11 <barry>	on the first, i feel your pain
Dec 08 22:03:15 <barry>	[TOPIC] agenda
Dec 08 22:03:16 <MootBot>	New Topic:  agenda
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * Roll call
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * Sabbaticals? (barry)
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	   * [[attachment:cover.txt]]
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	 * If there's time, the old boring script
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	   * Next meeting
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	   * Action items
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	   * Mentoring update
Dec 08 22:03:22 <barry>	   * Queue status
Dec 08 22:03:27 <jml>	barry: I'm well. Busy and getting things done, but frustrated by the slow speed of almost all of our technologies and by the way that Launchpad still doesn't make it easier for my work to flow.
Dec 08 22:04:01 <barry>	wow, there must be something in the air down there today :/
Dec 08 22:04:27 <mwhudson>	i'm just generically grumpy, i don't think there's any particular reason
Dec 08 22:04:30 *	barry thinks we should sprint for two weeks on *that*
Dec 08 22:04:31 <mwhudson>	so maybe you're right!
Dec 08 22:04:36 <mwhudson>	(also it's not sunny today)
Dec 08 22:04:48 <thumper>	I haven't had enough coffee
Dec 08 22:04:55 <thumper>	and I'm all out of beans
Dec 08 22:05:03 <jml>	thumper: :(
Dec 08 22:05:19 <jml>	anyway, we are all here, right?
Dec 08 22:05:19 *	sinzui has cans of emergency espresso
Dec 08 22:05:33 *	thumper laughs at sinzui
Dec 08 22:06:00 <mwhudson>	sinzui: i had emergency coffee in a can from a vending machine in tokyo.  it was a strange experience :)
Dec 08 22:06:11 <barry>	well, let's jump right in and get this over with ;)
Dec 08 22:06:16 <jml>	barry: yes, let's :)
Dec 08 22:06:21 <barry>	[TOPIC]  * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
Dec 08 22:06:22 <MootBot>	New Topic:   * Printing strings in doctests (barry)
Dec 08 22:06:54 <barry>	so, in a couple of recent reviews, we've talked about doctests, and print strings instead of just returning them
Dec 08 22:07:12 <jml>	wherefore?
Dec 08 22:07:16 <barry>	this is useful if you don't care whether you're getting a unicode or 8-bit, and because nobody cares about quotes
Dec 08 22:07:22 <thumper>	barry: I normally print strings
Dec 08 22:07:27 <barry>	thumper: excellent
Dec 08 22:07:31 <thumper>	barry: if I feel the need to write doctests
Dec 08 22:07:31 <sinzui>	returning them shows if they are unicode or ascii
Dec 08 22:07:37 <thumper>	barry: which I normally don't
Dec 08 22:07:37 <barry>	thumper: right :)
Dec 08 22:07:49 <barry>	sinzui: right.  you rarely care
Dec 08 22:07:52 *	sinzui does not like print strings in translations and answer tests
Dec 08 22:08:01 *	thumper doesn't care
Dec 08 22:08:02 <jml>	barry: ok. so this is just heads up on another review checklist item?
Dec 08 22:08:08 <barry>	jml: yep
Dec 08 22:08:23 <jml>	barry: where *does* that review checklist live?
Dec 08 22:08:44 <barry>	jml: it's still in the old wiki, but i think i know what i might spend my hour of wiki gardening on :)
Dec 08 22:08:51 <jml>	heh heh.
Dec 08 22:08:53 <barry>	though, that's not the canonical wiki, but still
Dec 08 22:09:07 <barry>	now, i just have to clear that with my team leader
Dec 08 22:09:23 <barry>	that's all i have on this topic anyway
Dec 08 22:09:27 <jml>	cool.
Dec 08 22:09:35 <barry>	[TOPIC]  * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
Dec 08 22:09:36 <MootBot>	New Topic:   * Gavin's `pretty()` function (allenap)
Dec 08 22:09:49 <barry>	so, just another heads up.  allenap landed a nice addition in a recent branch
Dec 08 22:10:01 <barry>	pretty() is just the global binding for python 2.5's pprint function
Dec 08 22:10:06 <barry>	which fixes dictionary ordering
Dec 08 22:10:08 <barry>	yay!
Dec 08 22:10:24 <barry>	so it's something that we as reviewers can encourage devs to use when the opportunity comes up
Dec 08 22:10:33 <thumper>	are we using python 2.5?
Dec 08 22:10:39 <jml>	2.4 has pprint
Dec 08 22:10:49 <jml>	(2.3 has pprint, even)
Dec 08 22:10:52 <barry>	thumper: nope.  he just installed 2.5's pprint module in a special place
Dec 08 22:11:06 <barry>	jml: yep, but < 2.5 has a bug in dictionary printing where order is not guaranteed
Dec 08 22:11:31 <jml>	I guess that's a bug if you love doctests :)
Dec 08 22:11:36 <barry>	lol
Dec 08 22:11:39 <mwhudson>	pprint appeared in 1.2 or something :)
Dec 08 22:11:44 <barry>	or review them... <wink>
Dec 08 22:12:01 <barry>	anyway...
Dec 08 22:12:14 <barry>	[TOPIC]  * Sabbaticals? (barry)
Dec 08 22:12:14 <MootBot>	New Topic:   * Sabbaticals? (barry)
Dec 08 22:12:22 <thumper>	you going somewhere?
Dec 08 22:12:30 <thumper>	oh
Dec 08 22:12:32 <thumper>	I know
Dec 08 22:12:34 <barry>	thumper: yep.  fridays/west :)
Dec 08 22:12:38 <thumper>	you want to come to the code team
Dec 08 22:12:46 <thumper>	:)
Dec 08 22:13:14 <barry>	thumper: well, i gotta give BHO a chance first
Dec 08 22:13:24 <jml>	what's all this about?
Dec 08 22:13:29 <barry>	okay!
Dec 08 22:13:29 <jml>	bho?
Dec 08 22:13:35 <thumper>	Obama
Dec 08 22:13:55 <barry>	so, intellectronica asked for a break from reviewing, so we really just came up with a (very loose) policy on that
Dec 08 22:14:02 <thumper>	barry: we'd have you even if you stayed where you are
Dec 08 22:14:20 <barry>	basically we have enough reviewers so people can take short breaks
Dec 08 22:14:43 <barry>	the policy is that you have to clear it with me first.  i promise i won't charge you much
Dec 08 22:14:57 <barry>	thumper: whatever happened to that cross-team training?
Dec 08 22:15:15 <thumper>	barry: it didn't take too well
Dec 08 22:15:22 <jml>	barry: Launchpad 2.0 partly
Dec 08 22:15:22 <barry>	unfortunately, i don't know how much this affects you guys becuase of the timezones, but i wanted to communicate the decision to you anyway
Dec 08 22:15:28 <jml>	barry: thanks.
Dec 08 22:15:31 <thumper>	barry: I think people get stuck with what they're into
Dec 08 22:15:40 <sinzui>	I thought the new policy was to move people every 12 months
Dec 08 22:16:00 <thumper>	sinzui: there is a policy?
Dec 08 22:16:13 <jml>	barry: I think the summary is that we don't really need to take sabbaticals because the load is pretty low, and there are so few of us that sabbaticals would leave a shortage of reviewers.
Dec 08 22:16:24 <mwhudson>	jml: +1
Dec 08 22:16:25 <barry>	jml: cool
Dec 08 22:16:41 <sinzui>	In September we decide where priorities lie and juggle people.
Dec 08 22:16:47 <barry>	sinzui: that's an interesting idea.  i think some people would be up for trying new things and others like it where they are
Dec 08 22:16:49 *	sinzui was on 4 teams in 18 months
Dec 08 22:17:33 <jml>	next item?
Dec 08 22:17:42 <barry>	[TOPIC] Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry) 
Dec 08 22:17:43 <MootBot>	New Topic:  Do we need a standard cover letter template for merge proposals? (barry)
Dec 08 22:17:58 <barry>	i proposed a rough draft at last week's ameu meeting.  i have a more fleshed out example:
Dec 08 22:18:07 <thumper>	I think we should have one
Dec 08 22:18:08 <barry>	https://dev.launchpad.net/ReviewerMeetingAgenda?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=cover.txt
Dec 08 22:18:45 <barry>	it's probably too much to read right now.  i'll send an email
Dec 08 22:19:22 <barry>	i've been using it for my last several branches.  i try to start writing it before i start hacking
Dec 08 22:19:23 <mwhudson>	barry: it's certainly pretty long
Dec 08 22:19:31 <barry>	mwhudson: mostly because it has examples
Dec 08 22:19:39 <barry>	mwhudson: the headings are really the only useful bits
Dec 08 22:20:00 <mwhudson>	ok
Dec 08 22:20:13 <barry>	jml, mwhudson do you think it would be useful to have a standard (even if this one isn't it)?
Dec 08 22:20:43 <jml>	barry: yes, but I think it's more useful as a tool than as a mandatory form, if you catch my drift?
Dec 08 22:21:12 <mwhudson>	barry: yes, especially if we can have a tool to write chunks of it
Dec 08 22:21:14 <barry>	jml: as part of a tool?  e.g. resurrect that bzr plugin perhaps?
Dec 08 22:21:35 <jml>	barry: I mean, the culture around it should be "use it as much as it helps", not "you must fill in each field"
Dec 08 22:21:45 <barry>	jml: gotcha.  i agree
Dec 08 22:21:52 <thumper>	jml: +1 on that
Dec 08 22:22:29 <barry>	thanks.  good feedback
Dec 08 22:22:39 <barry>	[TOPIC]  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
Dec 08 22:22:39 <MootBot>	New Topic:   * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
Dec 08 22:22:54 <barry>	that's it from me.  do y'all have anything for me or the ameus?
Dec 08 22:22:58 *	jml thinks
Dec 08 22:23:18 <jml>	an idea that's only tangentially related...
Dec 08 22:23:47 <jml>	Twisted has this thing where information about the tests for a module live in comments (as emacs variables) in that module
Dec 08 22:24:06 <jml>	That could gradually replace "run <foo> to test these changes"
Dec 08 22:24:17 <jml>	that's out of scope for this meeting though.
Dec 08 22:24:20 <jml>	ignore me.
Dec 08 22:25:03 <barry>	jml: i'm interested in hearing more, but perhaps on the ml?
Dec 08 22:25:12 <sinzui>	jml: that sounds like allenap's branch that runs the tests from the code coverage report.
Dec 08 22:25:28 <jml>	barry: *nod*
Dec 08 22:25:42 <jml>	sinzui: yeah, this is just less magic & more explicit.
Dec 08 22:25:49 <mwhudson>	it also coincides a little with my rant about "tests should be in directories called 'tests'"
Dec 08 22:26:01 <sinzui>	+1
Dec 08 22:26:02 <jml>	mwhudson: :)
Dec 08 22:26:24 <barry>	+1
Dec 08 22:26:45 <barry>	sinzui: sounds like we have enough material for at least 2 2-week hackathons :)
Dec 08 22:27:00 <sinzui>	Happy holidays
Dec 08 22:27:04 <barry>	:-D
Dec 08 22:27:09 *	sinzui is planning the death of blueprints
Dec 08 22:27:12 <barry>	forced vacations == +1
Dec 08 22:27:24 <jml>	sinzui: heh heh
Dec 08 22:27:33 <barry>	on that note.  anything else from you guys?
Dec 08 22:27:38 <jml>	barry: meeting next week?
Dec 08 22:27:40 <thumper>	sinzui: I'd like to see that plan
Dec 08 22:28:07 <barry>	jml: same time and place?
Dec 08 22:28:13 <jml>	cool.
Dec 08 22:28:15 <jml>	I'm done
Dec 08 22:28:19 <sinzui>	thumper: When I can fit it on one page, the plan is ready for publishing
Dec 08 22:28:31 <thumper>	barry: sounds good to me
Dec 08 22:28:54 <barry>	jml: i think we have one or twomore left for the year.  i'll leave it up to you if we do the 23rd or not
Dec 08 22:29:05 <barry>	you == y'all
Dec 08 22:29:13 *	jml nods
Dec 08 22:29:23 <barry>	i probably will /not/ have an ameu meeting on the 24th
Dec 08 22:29:36 *	thumper plans to be away on the 23rd
Dec 08 22:29:49 <barry>	k
Dec 08 22:29:51 <barry>	with that...
Dec 08 22:29:55 <barry>	#endmeeting
}}}