#FORMAT rst ======================= ReviewerMeeting20090916 ======================= summary ======= * all blueprint page updates are ui=rs * all mechanical updates are ui=rs * these still need code reviews * 4-space indents in css * thumper describes his cool new `assertStatementCount()` method logs ==== ameu ---- :: 10:04:19 > barry: #startmeeting 10:04:19 < henninge: Hey barry! 10:04:20 < MootBot: Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is barry. 10:04:20 < MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] 10:04:36 > barry: hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting. who's here today? 10:04:39 < BjornT: me 10:04:40 < abentley: me 10:04:43 < henninge: me 10:04:43 < bac: me 10:04:45 < noodles775: moi 10:04:49 < sinzui: me 10:04:52 < gary_poster: me 10:05:05 < EdwinGrubbs: me 10:05:15 < henninge: noodles775: toi? 10:05:39 < flacoste: me 10:05:39 < noodles775: henninge: nah, it's just "Australish" 10:05:44 < adeuring: me 10:05:45 < intellectronica: me 10:05:48 < henninge: ;-) 10:06:38 < EdwinGrubbs: noodles775: instead of "ping" do you say "Oi!" 10:06:57 < noodles775: You got it Ezza ;) 10:07:07 > barry: deryck, salgado cprov bigjools danilo-afk allenap mars ping 10:07:15 > barry: [TOPIC] agenda 10:07:16 < MootBot: New Topic: agenda 10:07:17 < cprov: me 10:07:20 < allenap: me 10:07:20 < bigjools: meh 10:07:23 < deryck: me, sorry 10:07:23 < salgado: me 10:07:23 > barry: * Roll call 10:07:23 > barry: * Action items 10:07:23 > barry: * UI review call update 10:07:23 > barry: * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:07:26 > barry: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:07:29 > barry: * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) 10:07:32 > barry: 10:07:36 > barry: 10:07:42 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items 10:07:43 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items 10:07:46 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items 10:07:47 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items 10:07:54 > * barry thanks mootbot 10:08:02 > barry: * gary_poster and barry will transfer review guidelines from the old wiki and old old wiki to the new wiki 10:08:17 < gary_poster: postponed to post 3.0 10:08:24 -!- danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos has joined #launchpad-meeting 10:08:25 > barry: sorry, gary_poster asked me to get mrevell a list of pages to pull over but 3.0 is swamping me 10:08:28 < danilos: me 10:08:32 > barry: what gary_poster said :) 10:08:41 > barry: * cprov to update guidelines to clarify how code sensitive to env changes should be written 10:08:52 < cprov: oi! sorry I forgot about it. 10:09:17 > barry: cprov: we'll just carry that one over. i'm hoping we'll be less stressed after this week or maybe next 10:09:21 > barry: so no worries 10:09:34 < cprov: barry: sure, thanks. 10:09:37 > barry: [TOPIC] * UI review call update 10:09:37 > barry: 10:09:38 < MootBot: New Topic: * UI review call update 10:09:57 > barry: let me see if beuno is around... 10:10:21 < intellectronica: i think he's on holiday 10:10:29 > barry: intellectronica: ah. 10:10:32 > barry: right 10:10:36 < intellectronica: one important thing we discussed is how overburdened ui reviewers are 10:11:03 > barry: intellectronica: yes. and that this is an extra-ordinary time because of the push for 3.0 10:11:15 < intellectronica: to make it a bit easier until 3.0 is out, it's ok for people to land very simple changes (mechanical conversions and such) with ui=rs 10:11:18 > barry: beuno did say he was going to start working with a few people to get them ui graduated 10:11:24 < intellectronica: i think martin has writted to the list about that 10:11:33 > barry: yep. intellectronica thanks 10:12:22 > barry: that's all i can think of. intellectronica, anything else? 10:12:47 < intellectronica: i think that's it 10:12:50 < sinzui: Does everyone know that Blueprint pages are ui=rs? 10:13:12 -!- jmux!n=jmux@lhm246.muenchen.de has joined #launchpad-meeting 10:13:26 < noodles775: Woops, I just landed the sprint-add mechanical change with r=rs and ui=rs... sorry. 10:13:50 > barry: noodles775: right, still need a normal code review 10:13:56 < noodles775: Yep. 10:14:06 < bigjools: yeehaw 10:14:10 < intellectronica: sinzui: does that include volunteers? i bet there are many people out there itching to give us a hand with blueprint conversions. if that happens, can we land their changes without a proper ui review? 10:14:20 < sinzui: noodles775: That is better than me. I was juggling 4 branches yesterday. I landed one by accident. I am glad bac approved it 10:14:29 < noodles775: heh 10:15:01 > barry: i promised bac to land one thru ec2 and then promptly pqm-submitted it ;) 10:15:19 < sinzui: intellectronica: I do not have an answer 10:15:35 > barry: intellectronica: for volunteers, we still have to land the branch so i think a quick look couldn't hurt 10:15:37 < flacoste: intellectronica, sinzui: if they are mechanical changes, yes 10:15:52 < flacoste: i still think we should do a UI review for non-mechanical blueprints UI change 10:15:53 < danilos: intellectronica, I've got 12 templates converted to generic-edit for blueprints, already reviewed, should land soon 10:15:57 < flacoste: doesn't need to be much involved 10:16:06 < danilos: intellectronica, i.e. make that 12 templates removed and replaced with generic-edit.pt 10:16:08 < intellectronica: danilos: you're a star 10:16:09 < sinzui: intellectronica: blueprint 2.0 pages will not work when we release, so doing a bad conversion job fixes more than will be broken in production 10:16:18 < flacoste: there is only 12 unclaimed blueprints templates on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion 10:17:32 > barry: moving on.. 10:17:46 < sinzui: The two blueprint pages I converted yesterday had whitespace issues. text overlapped text. I had to make some markup changes to make the page layout 10:18:00 > barry: [TOPIC] * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:18:00 > barry: 10:18:01 < MootBot: New Topic: * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:18:20 > barry: i want to make sure any question you have about the new rules get answered 10:18:46 < danilos: barry, excellent 10:18:50 > barry: i know that the breadcrumbs/titles/headers need some refinement, but that will have to wait until after 3.0. the rules we have now will not change until after 3.0 10:19:05 > barry: so... ask your questions now! :) 10:19:08 < bigjools: plz barry just fix everythin kthxbye 10:19:24 < noodles775: barry: did you see deryck's email? 10:19:24 < flacoste: that's actually a job for salgado :-) 10:19:48 < deryck: barry, beuno, and I talked off list about breadcrumbs in titles a lot already 10:19:53 > barry: noodles775: yes, but only in the sense that it made my inbox grow larger. i haven't read it yet. but deryck and i spoke this morning 10:20:01 < noodles775: Great. 10:20:08 > barry: salgado is the breadcrumb man 10:20:19 < deryck: I just replied to my own mail with the results of our call 10:20:35 > barry: deryck: cool, thanks 10:20:43 < deryck: np 10:20:56 < danilos: ok, so, I am wondering about the h2/h1 issue... it seems the h2 with context.title is gone on most pages? is that expected? 10:21:04 < danilos: or, how do we make it appear again? 10:21:06 > barry: danilos: yes 10:21:14 < noodles775: Add view.label? 10:21:15 < danilos: (sorry if I didn't pay close attention to the new rules page) 10:21:27 > barry: noodles775: yes, it can be something like: 10:21:29 > barry: @property 10:21:39 > barry: def label(self): return self.context.label 10:21:40 < danilos: noodles775, right, I am looking into figuring these out for all the translations page now that we've basically got everything converted 10:22:09 > barry: noodles775: i would like to make that simpler (e.g. fall back to context.title) but not for 3.0 10:22:30 < noodles775: Yep - that'd be great! 10:22:32 < bigjools: we get rs=barry for fixing stuff like this I think you said? 10:22:39 < intellectronica: barry: maybe have a mixin that does that? 10:22:53 > barry: intellectronica: i think it can be done on LaunchpadView and/or base-layout.pt 10:23:15 > barry: bigjools: sorry, what was the "stuff like this" in that sentence? 10:23:53 < bigjools: barry: fixing existing 3.0 changed pages to conform to the new heading rules 10:24:01 > barry: bigjools: right, +1 10:24:17 < bigjools: we were waiting for your branch to land so we could do that 10:24:54 > barry: yep. now you can jfdi:) 10:25:15 < bigjools: thanks for the extra work :) 10:25:40 > barry: :) 10:25:51 < flacoste: actually, it's less work 10:26:04 < flacoste: because otherwise, there were tweaks on a per-page basis 10:26:09 < bigjools: for future changes, yes 10:26:09 < flacoste: now, it's the same thing everywhere 10:26:21 > barry: updating pagetests might not be fun 10:26:32 < * flacoste:26:38 > barry: which is actually the main reason we aren't going to change the rules until post 3.0 10:27:02 < * bigjools:27:26 < sinzui: A lot of converted pages appear to be using pagetitle :( 10:28:14 > barry: please everyone, take a healthy swing with a large baseball bat at pagetitles.py 10:28:15 < sinzui: We'll know who cheated on day 1 of week 0 when pagetitles is deleted. 10:28:27 < deryck: heh 10:28:59 < * bigjools:29:15 < * sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net uses a small cannonette 10:29:18 > barry: bigjools: just give it two healthy swings then 10:29:23 < bigjools: :) 10:29:35 < sinzui: um 10:29:45 > barry: anything else on titles/headings/breadcrumbs? 10:30:16 > barry: cool 10:30:17 < sinzui: our designer is not available and I have not seen a design for the front page. Are we changing the page macro and declaring victory? 10:31:19 < bigjools: while we're on the subject of UI, some of the two-column <dl>s are a bit borked if an item uses an icon 10:31:48 < sinzui: leading icon? 10:32:02 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools looks for an example 10:32:16 < bigjools: yes leading 10:33:47 < bigjools: sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/ 10:34:00 < bigjools: anyway, OT for this meeting I guess 10:34:21 > barry: k, let's move on 10:34:24 > barry: [TOPIC] * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:34:25 < MootBot: New Topic: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:34:48 > barry: fairly simple one i think. most of our css in styles-3-0.css are 4 space indents 10:35:01 < bigjools: JFDI 10:35:24 > barry: any objections to keeping 4 space indents? 10:35:43 > barry: 5 10:35:47 > barry: 4 10:35:48 < noodles775: Nope - guessing it was just 2-spaces from pre-minimization days? 10:35:50 > barry: 3 10:35:55 < sinzui: keeping it? I intentionally set it to 4, who put something else 10:36:10 > barry: sinzui: dunno 10:36:21 < noodles775: sinzui: there's old stuff in style.css with 2 spaces I think. 10:36:26 > barry: rs=me on fixing them for the next person to touch the file 10:36:46 > barry: 4 spaces it is 10:36:48 > barry: [TOPIC] peanut gallery 10:36:49 < MootBot: New Topic: peanut gallery 10:36:50 < sinzui: There should not be. stuff requires porting from specific CSS to generic 10:36:55 < * bigjools:37:02 > barry: bigjools: shuck it! 10:37:05 < bigjools: ok 10:37:22 < bigjools: real quick, but I sometimes see some obtuse page test code that does this: 10:37:36 < sinzui: There should not be a zillion p.<class_that_is really_useful_but_can_only_be_used_by_paragrpahs> 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> browser.getLink("xxx").click() 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> print browser.url 10:37:36 < bigjools: http://launchpad.dev/blah 10:37:36 < abentley: bigjools: Then take some pictures of it, and you'll have your own peanut gallery. 10:37:44 < bigjools: which causes an unnecessary page load 10:37:50 < bigjools: you can just do: 10:37:52 < bigjools: >>> print browser.getLink("xxx").url 10:37:54 < bigjools: instead 10:38:04 < bigjools: EOT 10:38:31 < BjornT: bigjools: shouldn't the test make sure that the link leads to the right page? 10:38:33 > barry: bigjools: oh, you mean if you aren't doing anything else on the target page? 10:38:47 < bigjools: BjornT: they are the exact same test 10:39:01 < sinzui: bigjools: barry: I think there is a misunderstanding here 10:39:11 < bigjools: barry: yes 10:39:12 < BjornT: bigjools: no. the first one makes sure the link isn't a 404. your version doesn't 10:39:41 < bigjools: BjornT: if the test is doing nothing else, my version is better. Loading a page and doing nothing is a bad test. 10:39:47 < sinzui: I do what bigjools is suggesting when I test that a view provides expected content, but a story is about link traversal 10:40:03 < BjornT: bigjools: well, it still depends on the intention of the test 10:40:05 < bigjools: it should ideally have a separate test for that page 10:40:09 < bigjools: BjornT: yes, agreed 10:40:18 < bigjools: but it's just something to look out for 10:40:29 < bigjools: I am on the rampage against slow tests 10:40:50 < bigjools: and this is low-hanging fruit for a big gain 10:41:06 < sinzui: bigjools: most of the slow tests are pagetests that are checking the contract of a view. Covert them to a unittest or a doctest of the view. 10:41:29 > barry: sinzui: +1 view tests rock 10:41:31 < bigjools: yes, I think that's a separate issue to this though 10:42:02 < bigjools: if another page test file tests the page, you don't need to load it somewhere else just to check a link exists 10:42:19 < bigjools: anyway, that's it 10:42:31 > barry: bigjools: cool thanks 10:42:39 > barry: 3m left. anyone else? 10:42:43 < sinzui: bigjools: right. That is why I argue we have far too many pagetests 10:43:31 < BjornT: bigjools: well, if some other test makes sure you can navigate to that page, yes. that's what really is happening there. from page A we can reach page B 10:44:33 > barry: okay, i think we're done. 10:44:36 > barry: #endmeeting asiapac ------- :: 18:30:32 > barry: #startmeeting 18:30:33 < MootBot: Meeting started at 17:30. The chair is barry. 18:30:33 < MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] 18:30:42 > barry: hi guys 18:30:48 < rockstar: ni! 18:30:52 < wgrant: me 18:31:04 < thumper: hi 18:31:24 > barry: jml, mwhudson ping 18:31:35 < jml: hi 18:31:55 > barry: so. let's start with a recap of ameu 18:32:14 < mwhudson: hi 18:32:16 > barry: all updates to blueprint pages and all mechanical changes are ui=rs 18:32:22 > barry: they still need a code review though 18:32:30 > barry: wgrant: that includes volunteers :) 18:32:37 < mwhudson: blueprints? what's that again? :) 18:32:42 > barry: :D 18:32:50 > barry: use 4 space indents in css files 18:32:58 < wgrant: barry: Tempting, tempting... 18:33:01 > barry: that's it! 18:33:27 < mwhudson: cool, short and sweet 18:33:40 > barry: thumper: has something for today... 18:33:40 < rockstar: thumper landed a new toy today. He should talk about it. 18:33:49 < thumper: :) 18:34:08 < thumper: r9475 of devel has a new method on TestCase 18:34:15 < thumper: def assertStatementCount(self, expected_count, function, *args, **kwargs): 18:34:26 < thumper: it uses the StormStatementRecorder 18:34:31 < thumper: (also in r9475) 18:34:40 < thumper: you need to be careful about the state of the store cache 18:34:41 < jml: thumper, wow, that's a great idea :P 18:34:52 < thumper: jml: :) 18:35:20 < thumper: but it is good for asserting that you aren't hitting the DB when you don't expect to 18:35:38 < mwhudson: thumper: can you use the StormStatementRecorder to find out more about the actual queries than just the count? 18:35:46 < rockstar: thumper, can we find a way to get the information from StormStatementRecorder into every HTTPResponse for our dev server? 18:35:56 < mwhudson: although i'm having a hard time thinking about why you'd want that, now i've said it... 18:36:00 < thumper: mwhudson: if the count doesn't equal, it prints out the actual statements in the fail message 18:36:10 > barry: thumper: when you say "you need to be careful about the state of the store cache" what does that mean? 18:36:20 < mwhudson: thumper: cool 18:36:28 < thumper: barry: if you are creating objects in the test, then they are in the cache 18:36:39 < thumper: barry: so factory.makeBranch will already have the branch owner in the cache 18:36:48 < thumper: where as if you have just loaded the branch itself, it won't be 18:36:50 < thumper: so 18:36:55 < thumper: you need to do something like: 18:37:02 < thumper: store = Store.of(obj) 18:37:05 < thumper: store.flush() 18:37:07 < thumper: store.reset() 18:37:18 < thumper: reload the obj somehow using a utility 18:37:22 < thumper: then assert counts 18:37:44 < thumper: the store.reset() removes the hidden storm store attribute of the object 18:37:51 < thumper: so you can't just use: store.reload(obj) 18:37:53 < thumper: it doesn't work 18:37:59 > barry: thumper: this sounds cool even today when i'm more fully awake :) please email launchpad-dev to let people know about it and/or add it to our dev wiki 18:38:08 < thumper: this _maybe_ solvable with enough storm-fu 18:38:37 < rockstar: thumper, I think the landscape guys might like to know about it too. 18:38:52 < thumper: perhaps 18:39:19 < thumper: I'm using it to confirm that my "priming of the storm cache" actually does what I expect 18:40:45 > barry: thumper: this is cool, thanks for adding it, and please do let everyone know about 18:40:53 < thumper: ok 18:40:56 > barry: anything else guys? 18:41:04 < rockstar: Not from me. 18:41:23 < thumper: that's it from me 18:41:35 > barry: wgrant, jml, mwhudson ? 18:41:44 < jml: not from me 18:42:06 < mwhudson: nope 18:42:25 > barry: great, thanks everyone! 18:42:27 < wgrant: no 18:42:30 > barry: #endmeeting