- Karl joined us to talk about the work he did last week in writing wiki pages to explain the community member contribution process.
- The pages are at:
- with links from:
It was agreed the pages are an excellent start. There was some discussion about what to name the unit of work people submit (patch, branch, change, changeset). In the end patch was kept with the understanding it would be fully explained to be a Bzr branch not an actual patch as used by the patch utility.
- Rockstar lauded the work of Leonard and declared him graduated as a full-fledged Launchpad Reviewer, earning all of the rights and responsibilities of the title, namely not having to bother Rockstar to mentor his work. Congratulations Leonard.
We noted that with Leonard's graduation all Launchpad developers are now reviewers! MWH pointed out that's a clear indication we need to do some more hiring. Congratulations everyone.
[15:00] <bac> #startmeeting [15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac. [15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:00] <bac> hello everyone and welcome to the AMEU reviewer's meeting. [15:00] <bac> who is here today? team leads will you help me round up your folks who may be tardy? [15:00] <gary_poster> me, me me! [15:00] <bigjools> me [15:00] <rockstar> ni! [15:00] <noodles775> me [15:00] <henninge> ich [15:00] <leonardr> me [15:00] <kfogel> hey [15:01] <sinzui> me [15:01] <bigjools> soyuz non-vacationing/non-seconded team members all correct and present SAH [15:01] <abentley> me [15:01] <bac> sinzui, EdwinGrubbs, salgado: registry team ping [15:01] <rockstar> Code's here. [15:01] <bac> sorry sinzu [15:01] <bac> i [15:01] <sinzui> o [15:01] <sinzui> u [15:02] <salgado> me! [15:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me [15:02] <bac> thanks bigjools [15:02] <allenap> me [15:02] <mars> me [15:02] <bac> henninge: any more bug folks? [15:02] <bigjools> bac: o7 [15:03] <bac> will flacoste be joining us? [15:03] <flacoste> i am [15:03] <flacoste> me [15:03] <henninge> bac: you mean translations? danilos? [15:03] <bac> welcome back flacoste! [15:03] <bac> henninge: yeah, that's what i meant. sorry. [15:03] <bac> allenap: any of your cohorts around? [15:04] <allenap> bac: I've just pinged them all... let's see.. [15:04] <jtv> me [15:04] <intellectronica> me [15:04] <danilos> ok, ok, me too [15:04] <danilos> :) [15:04] <bac> welcome special guest kfogel [15:04] <bac> [TOPIC] agenda [15:04] <MootBot> New Topic: agenda [15:04] * jtv applauds kfogel [15:04] <bac> * Roll call [15:04] <bac> * Apologies: None [15:04] <bac> * Action items [15:04] <bac> * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar) [15:04] <bac> * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) [15:04] <kfogel> thanks bac, jtv [15:05] <bac> [TOPIC] * Action items [15:05] <bac> * Karl to update wiki about sponsoring contributions and take RFC to the mailing list. [15:05] <MootBot> New Topic: * Action items [15:05] <kfogel> So, kfogel would like to know if that item is done or not. [15:05] <kfogel> I wasn't sure what the original spec was; I improvised. Thoughts, folks? [15:05] <bac> Thanks kfogel for taking care of that item. I read it and it looks good. [15:05] <kfogel> bac: thank you. [15:05] <salgado> where is it? [15:05] <bac> Did anyone else get a chance to read karl's updates? [15:06] <intellectronica> no, url? [15:06] <kfogel> (most of the material was there already, actually -- barry and I put it there long ago) [15:06] * kfogel finds urls... [15:06] <bac> https://dev.launchpad.net/FixBugs [15:06] <kfogel> okay, three: [15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/Patches [15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/FixBugs [15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/Reviews [15:06] <kfogel> they interlink [15:07] <bac> kfogel: are these all new pages or just additions to existing ones? [15:07] <kfogel> the first two are directly linked from the top nav box on the home page [15:07] <kfogel> bac: FixBugs is a new page [15:07] <kfogel> bac: I updated Patches (and renamed it from PatchSubmission); I don't think I tweaked Reviews much. [15:08] <bac> i think this is a good start. [15:08] <intellectronica> i think we should avoid using the word "patch", because it might confuse people that are familiar with diff/patch but not with dvcs [15:08] <bac> the process and our description on the wiki will evolve but i appreciate karl writing the first cut. [15:08] <kfogel> I'd like to know what's missing; my email to the list didn't get much reaction AFAICT. [15:09] <kfogel> Happy to add more (also happy for people to edit directly, of course!). [15:09] <bac> intellectronica: do you have a suggested wording? [15:09] <intellectronica> bac: branch [15:09] <kfogel> intellectronica: I didn't quite understand: how will "patch" confuse people in that situation? [15:09] <intellectronica> or changeset, if you want to talk about it in the abstract [15:10] <kfogel> "change" ? [15:10] <intellectronica> kfogel: they might think that we want them to produce a patch file, rather than a bzr branch [15:10] <abentley> So I thought the idea was that when you wanted to fix a bug, for example, you found a sponsor and they guided you through the process, starting with some facimile of a pre-implementation call. [15:10] <kfogel> intellectronica: ah. One way might be to simply explain at the top of the Patches page that the end result is a bzr branch, not an actual patch file. [15:10] <kfogel> I think "patch" might still be the term of art for changes. [15:11] <intellectronica> kfogel: yeah, i guess just stressing that might be enough [15:11] <kfogel> abentley: if that's the idea, I'd like to suggest that we be more lightweight. It's certainly okay to do that, but people should also feel free to do more lightweight process... [15:11] <EdwinGrubbs> The name "Patches" doesn't explain whether they can get patches on that page or learn how to submit patches. [15:12] <bac> EdwinGrubbs: yeah, i think i prefer the old name PatchSubmission [15:12] <kfogel> EdwinGrubbs, bac: I can revert, easy enough. [15:12] <abentley> I try to refer to submitting a "change", rather than a patch. Even that's broken, though, because we deal in branches, and branches represent a state, not a change. [15:13] <kfogel> so ACTION items so far: rename back to PatchSubmission; explain at top of page that 'patch' means 'branch'. I do think sticking with the accepted term for patches would be a good idea. It's what everyone uses, even when they're not trading actual patch files. [15:13] <intellectronica> abentley: +1 i think change or changeset are good terms which are much less ambiguous [15:13] <abentley> intellectronica: bzr doesn't have changesets, so I don't think that's a good term to use. [15:14] <jtv> "improvement"? [15:14] <intellectronica> abentley: we could call it revision, which is what bzr actually has, no? [15:14] <abentley> intellectronica: But multiple revisions are often submitted. [15:14] <kfogel> intellectronica: changeset is a technical term in VC; also, having tried to use it with lots of people, I find I often have to explain it. Many people already know "patch"; those few who don't, once they understand it, will be permanently enabled across the software ecosystem. [15:15] <intellectronica> anyway, this turning into a theological discussion. sorry for starting. continue on the list? [15:15] <kfogel> Let's reinforce the existing term, not try to promote a new term. (This is an old debate and an old effort, and it hasn't succeeded in dethroning "patch" yet, IMHO.) [15:15] <kfogel> heh [15:15] <deryck> I'm not sure people really get tripped up over thinking "patch" literally means a patch. The generic use of the term seems common to me. [15:15] <bac> intellectronica: yes, good idea. [15:15] <kfogel> okay, let's go with the two ACTION items above. Any others so far? [15:15] <bac> thanks again to karl. please follow up to his email if you have further discussion. [15:16] <bac> [TOPIC] * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar) [15:16] <MootBot> New Topic: * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar) [15:16] <bac> rockstar: you have the floor [15:16] <rockstar> leonardr has done an amazing job as a manatee since day one. His reviews are insightful and exploratory. I'm happy to announce his graduation. [15:16] <leonardr> yay [15:16] <rockstar> Congratulations leonardr [15:16] <bac> whee [15:17] <bac> congratulations leonard. [15:17] <noodles775> congrats leonardr ! [15:17] <bac> with his graduation we are mentat-free, i believe. [15:17] <kfogel> leonardr++ [15:17] <bac> have we reached the goal of every developer being a reviewer? [15:18] <rockstar> I believe so. [15:19] <bac> excellent. i think that plan was hatched in our MIT sprint. congratulations everyone. [15:19] <flacoste> and barry isn't here to join the fun! [15:19] <flacoste> congratulations leonard [15:19] <bac> [TOPIC] * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) [15:19] <MootBot> New Topic: * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) [15:20] <bac> does anyone have another topic to discuss? [15:21] <bac> thanks for coming everyone. please do read the new wiki pages in detail and offer feedback. [15:21] <bac> #endmeeting
We were unable to establish a quorum so it was decided to not have a formal meeting. I quickly summarized the AMEU meeting in individual IRC messages.