⇤ ← Revision 1 as of 2009-09-16 14:51:49
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* all blueprint page updates are ui=rs * all mechanical updates are ui=rs * these still need code reviews * 4-space indents in css |
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10:04:19 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: Hey barry! 10:04:20 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is barry. 10:04:20 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] |
10:04:19 < henninge: Hey barry! 10:04:20 < MootBot: Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is barry. 10:04:20 < MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] |
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10:04:39 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: me 10:04:40 < abentley!n=abentley@CPE001a7046c8f9-CM001e6b233d5a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com: me 10:04:43 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: me 10:04:43 < bac!n=bac@canonical/launchpad/bac: me 10:04:45 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: moi 10:04:49 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: me 10:04:52 < gary_poster!n=anonymou@cpe-069-134-211-019.nc.res.rr.com: me 10:05:05 < EdwinGrubbs!n=egrubbs@canonical/launchpad/edwingrubbs: me 10:05:15 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: noodles775: toi? 10:05:39 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: me 10:05:39 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: henninge: nah, it's just "Australish" 10:05:44 < adeuring!n=abel@Fa0fb.f.ppp-pool.de: me 10:05:45 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: me 10:05:48 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: ;-) 10:06:38 < EdwinGrubbs!n=egrubbs@canonical/launchpad/edwingrubbs: noodles775: instead of "ping" do you say "Oi!" 10:06:57 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: You got it Ezza ;) |
10:04:39 < BjornT: me 10:04:40 < abentley: me 10:04:43 < henninge: me 10:04:43 < bac: me 10:04:45 < noodles775: moi 10:04:49 < sinzui: me 10:04:52 < gary_poster: me 10:05:05 < EdwinGrubbs: me 10:05:15 < henninge: noodles775: toi? 10:05:39 < flacoste: me 10:05:39 < noodles775: henninge: nah, it's just "Australish" 10:05:44 < adeuring: me 10:05:45 < intellectronica: me 10:05:48 < henninge: ;-) 10:06:38 < EdwinGrubbs: noodles775: instead of "ping" do you say "Oi!" 10:06:57 < noodles775: You got it Ezza ;) |
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10:07:16 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: agenda 10:07:17 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: me 10:07:20 < allenap!n=gavin@89.16.172.38: me 10:07:20 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: meh 10:07:23 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: me, sorry 10:07:23 < salgado!n=salgado@canonical/launchpad/salgado: me |
10:07:16 < MootBot: New Topic: agenda 10:07:17 < cprov: me 10:07:20 < allenap: me 10:07:20 < bigjools: meh 10:07:23 < deryck: me, sorry 10:07:23 < salgado: me |
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10:07:43 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * Action items | 10:07:43 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items |
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10:07:47 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * Action items | 10:07:47 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items |
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10:08:17 < gary_poster!n=anonymou@cpe-069-134-211-019.nc.res.rr.com: postponed to post 3.0 | 10:08:17 < gary_poster: postponed to post 3.0 |
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10:08:28 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: me | 10:08:28 < danilos: me |
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10:08:52 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: oi! sorry I forgot about it. | 10:08:52 < cprov: oi! sorry I forgot about it. |
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10:09:34 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: barry: sure, thanks. | 10:09:34 < cprov: barry: sure, thanks. |
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10:09:38 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * UI review call update | 10:09:38 < MootBot: New Topic: * UI review call update |
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10:10:21 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think he's on holiday | 10:10:21 < intellectronica: i think he's on holiday |
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10:10:36 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: one important thing we discussed is how overburdened ui reviewers are | 10:10:36 < intellectronica: one important thing we discussed is how overburdened ui reviewers are |
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10:11:15 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: to make it a bit easier until 3.0 is out, it's ok for people to land very simple changes (mechanical conversions and such) with ui=rs | 10:11:15 < intellectronica: to make it a bit easier until 3.0 is out, it's ok for people to land very simple changes (mechanical conversions and such) with ui=rs |
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10:11:24 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think martin has writted to the list about that | 10:11:24 < intellectronica: i think martin has writted to the list about that |
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10:12:47 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think that's it 10:12:50 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: Does everyone know that Blueprint pages are ui=rs? |
10:12:47 < intellectronica: i think that's it 10:12:50 < sinzui: Does everyone know that Blueprint pages are ui=rs? |
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10:13:26 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Woops, I just landed the sprint-add mechanical change with r=rs and ui=rs... sorry. | 10:13:26 < noodles775: Woops, I just landed the sprint-add mechanical change with r=rs and ui=rs... sorry. |
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10:13:56 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Yep. 10:14:06 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yeehaw 10:14:10 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: sinzui: does that include volunteers? i bet there are many people out there itching to give us a hand with blueprint conversions. if that happens, can we land their changes without a proper ui review? 10:14:20 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: noodles775: That is better than me. I was juggling 4 branches yesterday. I landed one by accident. I am glad bac approved it 10:14:29 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: heh |
10:13:56 < noodles775: Yep. 10:14:06 < bigjools: yeehaw 10:14:10 < intellectronica: sinzui: does that include volunteers? i bet there are many people out there itching to give us a hand with blueprint conversions. if that happens, can we land their changes without a proper ui review? 10:14:20 < sinzui: noodles775: That is better than me. I was juggling 4 branches yesterday. I landed one by accident. I am glad bac approved it 10:14:29 < noodles775: heh |
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10:15:19 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: intellectronica: I do not have an answer | 10:15:19 < sinzui: intellectronica: I do not have an answer |
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10:15:37 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: intellectronica, sinzui: if they are mechanical changes, yes 10:15:52 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: i still think we should do a UI review for non-mechanical blueprints UI change 10:15:53 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: intellectronica, I've got 12 templates converted to generic-edit for blueprints, already reviewed, should land soon 10:15:57 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: doesn't need to be much involved 10:16:06 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: intellectronica, i.e. make that 12 templates removed and replaced with generic-edit.pt 10:16:08 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: danilos: you're a star 10:16:09 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: intellectronica: blueprint 2.0 pages will not work when we release, so doing a bad conversion job fixes more than will be broken in production 10:16:18 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: there is only 12 unclaimed blueprints templates on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion |
10:15:37 < flacoste: intellectronica, sinzui: if they are mechanical changes, yes 10:15:52 < flacoste: i still think we should do a UI review for non-mechanical blueprints UI change 10:15:53 < danilos: intellectronica, I've got 12 templates converted to generic-edit for blueprints, already reviewed, should land soon 10:15:57 < flacoste: doesn't need to be much involved 10:16:06 < danilos: intellectronica, i.e. make that 12 templates removed and replaced with generic-edit.pt 10:16:08 < intellectronica: danilos: you're a star 10:16:09 < sinzui: intellectronica: blueprint 2.0 pages will not work when we release, so doing a bad conversion job fixes more than will be broken in production 10:16:18 < flacoste: there is only 12 unclaimed blueprints templates on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion |
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10:17:46 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: The two blueprint pages I converted yesterday had whitespace issues. text overlapped text. I had to make some markup changes to make the page layout | 10:17:46 < sinzui: The two blueprint pages I converted yesterday had whitespace issues. text overlapped text. I had to make some markup changes to make the page layout |
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10:18:01 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * new heading/title rules [barry] | 10:18:01 < MootBot: New Topic: * new heading/title rules [barry] |
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10:18:46 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: barry, excellent | 10:18:46 < danilos: barry, excellent |
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10:19:08 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: plz barry just fix everythin kthxbye 10:19:24 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: barry: did you see deryck's email? 10:19:24 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: that's actually a job for salgado :-) 10:19:48 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: barry, beuno, and I talked off list about breadcrumbs in titles a lot already |
10:19:08 < bigjools: plz barry just fix everythin kthxbye 10:19:24 < noodles775: barry: did you see deryck's email? 10:19:24 < flacoste: that's actually a job for salgado :-) 10:19:48 < deryck: barry, beuno, and I talked off list about breadcrumbs in titles a lot already |
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10:20:01 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Great. | 10:20:01 < noodles775: Great. |
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10:20:19 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: I just replied to my own mail with the results of our call | 10:20:19 < deryck: I just replied to my own mail with the results of our call |
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10:20:43 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: np 10:20:56 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: ok, so, I am wondering about the h2/h1 issue... it seems the h2 with context.title is gone on most pages? is that expected? 10:21:04 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: or, how do we make it appear again? |
10:20:43 < deryck: np 10:20:56 < danilos: ok, so, I am wondering about the h2/h1 issue... it seems the h2 with context.title is gone on most pages? is that expected? 10:21:04 < danilos: or, how do we make it appear again? |
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10:21:14 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Add view.label? 10:21:15 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: (sorry if I didn't pay close attention to the new rules page) |
10:21:14 < noodles775: Add view.label? 10:21:15 < danilos: (sorry if I didn't pay close attention to the new rules page) |
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10:21:40 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: noodles775, right, I am looking into figuring these out for all the translations page now that we've basically got everything converted | 10:21:40 < danilos: noodles775, right, I am looking into figuring these out for all the translations page now that we've basically got everything converted |
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10:22:30 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Yep - that'd be great! 10:22:32 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: we get rs=barry for fixing stuff like this I think you said? 10:22:39 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: barry: maybe have a mixin that does that? |
10:22:30 < noodles775: Yep - that'd be great! 10:22:32 < bigjools: we get rs=barry for fixing stuff like this I think you said? 10:22:39 < intellectronica: barry: maybe have a mixin that does that? |
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10:23:53 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: barry: fixing existing 3.0 changed pages to conform to the new heading rules | 10:23:53 < bigjools: barry: fixing existing 3.0 changed pages to conform to the new heading rules |
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10:24:17 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: we were waiting for your branch to land so we could do that 10:24:54 > barry: yep. now you can jfdi! :) 10:25:15 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: thanks for the extra work :) |
10:24:17 < bigjools: we were waiting for your branch to land so we could do that 10:24:54 > barry: yep. now you can jfdi:) 10:25:15 < bigjools: thanks for the extra work :) |
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10:25:51 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: actually, it's less work 10:26:04 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: because otherwise, there were tweaks on a per-page basis 10:26:09 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: for future changes, yes 10:26:09 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: now, it's the same thing everywhere |
10:25:51 < flacoste: actually, it's less work 10:26:04 < flacoste: because otherwise, there were tweaks on a per-page basis 10:26:09 < bigjools: for future changes, yes 10:26:09 < flacoste: now, it's the same thing everywhere |
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10:26:32 < * flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste mumble about approval tests 10:26:38 > barry: which is actually the main reason we aren't going to change the <title> rules until post 3.0 10:27:02 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools dreams of killing pagetitles.py 10:27:26 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: A lot of converted pages appear to be using pagetitle :( |
10:26:32 < * flacoste:26:38 > barry: which is actually the main reason we aren't going to change the <title> rules until post 3.0 10:27:02 < * bigjools:27:26 < sinzui: A lot of converted pages appear to be using pagetitle :( |
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10:28:15 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: We'll know who cheated on day 1 of week 0 when pagetitles is deleted. 10:28:27 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: heh 10:28:59 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools uses a cricket bat instead 10:29:15 < * sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net uses a small cannonette |
10:28:15 < sinzui: We'll know who cheated on day 1 of week 0 when pagetitles is deleted. 10:28:27 < deryck: heh 10:28:59 < * bigjools:29:15 < * sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net uses a small cannonette |
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10:29:23 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: :) 10:29:35 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: um |
10:29:23 < bigjools: :) 10:29:35 < sinzui: um |
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10:30:17 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: our designer is not available and I have not seen a design for the front page. Are we changing the page macro and declaring victory? 10:31:19 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: while we're on the subject of UI, some of the two-column <dl>s are a bit borked if an item uses an icon 10:31:48 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: leading icon? |
10:30:17 < sinzui: our designer is not available and I have not seen a design for the front page. Are we changing the page macro and declaring victory? 10:31:19 < bigjools: while we're on the subject of UI, some of the two-column <dl>s are a bit borked if an item uses an icon 10:31:48 < sinzui: leading icon? |
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10:32:16 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yes leading 10:33:47 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/ 10:34:00 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: anyway, OT for this meeting I guess |
10:32:16 < bigjools: yes leading 10:33:47 < bigjools: sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/ 10:34:00 < bigjools: anyway, OT for this meeting I guess |
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10:34:25 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] | 10:34:25 < MootBot: New Topic: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] |
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10:35:01 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: JFDI | 10:35:01 < bigjools: JFDI |
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10:35:48 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Nope - guessing it was just 2-spaces from pre-minimization days? | 10:35:48 < noodles775: Nope - guessing it was just 2-spaces from pre-minimization days? |
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10:35:55 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: keeping it? I intentionally set it to 4, who put something else | 10:35:55 < sinzui: keeping it? I intentionally set it to 4, who put something else |
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10:36:21 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: sinzui: there's old stuff in style.css with 2 spaces I think. | 10:36:21 < noodles775: sinzui: there's old stuff in style.css with 2 spaces I think. |
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10:36:49 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: peanut gallery 10:36:50 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: There should not be. stuff requires porting from specific CSS to generic 10:36:55 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools has a peanut 10:37:02 > barry: bigjools: shuck it! 10:37:05 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: ok 10:37:22 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: real quick, but I sometimes see some obtuse page test code that does this: 10:37:36 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: There should not be a zillion p.<class_that_is really_useful_but_can_only_be_used_by_paragrpahs> 10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> browser.getLink("xxx").click() 10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> print browser.url 10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: http://launchpad.dev/blah 10:37:36 < abentley!n=abentley@CPE001a7046c8f9-CM001e6b233d5a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com: bigjools: Then take some pictures of it, and you'll have your own peanut gallery. 10:37:44 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: which causes an unnecessary page load 10:37:50 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: you can just do: 10:37:52 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> print browser.getLink("xxx").url 10:37:54 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: instead 10:38:04 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: EOT 10:38:31 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: shouldn't the test make sure that the link leads to the right page? |
10:36:49 < MootBot: New Topic: peanut gallery 10:36:50 < sinzui: There should not be. stuff requires porting from specific CSS to generic 10:36:55 < * bigjools:37:02 > barry: bigjools: shuck it! 10:37:05 < bigjools: ok 10:37:22 < bigjools: real quick, but I sometimes see some obtuse page test code that does this: 10:37:36 < sinzui: There should not be a zillion p.<class_that_is really_useful_but_can_only_be_used_by_paragrpahs> 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> browser.getLink("xxx").click() 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> print browser.url 10:37:36 < bigjools: http://launchpad.dev/blah 10:37:36 < abentley: bigjools: Then take some pictures of it, and you'll have your own peanut gallery. 10:37:44 < bigjools: which causes an unnecessary page load 10:37:50 < bigjools: you can just do: 10:37:52 < bigjools: >>> print browser.getLink("xxx").url 10:37:54 < bigjools: instead 10:38:04 < bigjools: EOT 10:38:31 < BjornT: bigjools: shouldn't the test make sure that the link leads to the right page? |
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10:38:47 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: they are the exact same test 10:39:01 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: barry: I think there is a misunderstanding here 10:39:11 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: barry: yes 10:39:12 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: no. the first one makes sure the link isn't a 404. your version doesn't 10:39:41 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: if the test is doing nothing else, my version is better. Loading a page and doing nothing is a bad test. 10:39:47 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: I do what bigjools is suggesting when I test that a view provides expected content, but a story is about link traversal 10:40:03 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: well, it still depends on the intention of the test 10:40:05 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: it should ideally have a separate test for that page 10:40:09 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: yes, agreed 10:40:18 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: but it's just something to look out for 10:40:29 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: I am on the rampage against slow tests 10:40:50 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: and this is low-hanging fruit for a big gain 10:41:06 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: most of the slow tests are pagetests that are checking the contract of a view. Covert them to a unittest or a doctest of the view. |
10:38:47 < bigjools: BjornT: they are the exact same test 10:39:01 < sinzui: bigjools: barry: I think there is a misunderstanding here 10:39:11 < bigjools: barry: yes 10:39:12 < BjornT: bigjools: no. the first one makes sure the link isn't a 404. your version doesn't 10:39:41 < bigjools: BjornT: if the test is doing nothing else, my version is better. Loading a page and doing nothing is a bad test. 10:39:47 < sinzui: I do what bigjools is suggesting when I test that a view provides expected content, but a story is about link traversal 10:40:03 < BjornT: bigjools: well, it still depends on the intention of the test 10:40:05 < bigjools: it should ideally have a separate test for that page 10:40:09 < bigjools: BjornT: yes, agreed 10:40:18 < bigjools: but it's just something to look out for 10:40:29 < bigjools: I am on the rampage against slow tests 10:40:50 < bigjools: and this is low-hanging fruit for a big gain 10:41:06 < sinzui: bigjools: most of the slow tests are pagetests that are checking the contract of a view. Covert them to a unittest or a doctest of the view. |
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10:41:31 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yes, I think that's a separate issue to this though 10:42:02 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: if another page test file tests the page, you don't need to load it somewhere else just to check a link exists 10:42:19 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: anyway, that's it |
10:41:31 < bigjools: yes, I think that's a separate issue to this though 10:42:02 < bigjools: if another page test file tests the page, you don't need to load it somewhere else just to check a link exists 10:42:19 < bigjools: anyway, that's it |
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10:42:43 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: right. That is why I argue we have far too many pagetests 10:43:31 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: well, if some other test makes sure you can navigate to that page, yes. that's what really is happening there. from page A we can reach page B |
10:42:43 < sinzui: bigjools: right. That is why I argue we have far too many pagetests 10:43:31 < BjornT: bigjools: well, if some other test makes sure you can navigate to that page, yes. that's what really is happening there. from page A we can reach page B |
======================= ReviewerMeeting20090916 ======================= summary ======= * all blueprint page updates are ui=rs * all mechanical updates are ui=rs * these still need code reviews * 4-space indents in css logs ==== ameu ---- :: 10:04:19 > barry: #startmeeting 10:04:19 < henninge: Hey barry! 10:04:20 < MootBot: Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is barry. 10:04:20 < MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] 10:04:36 > barry: hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting. who's here today? 10:04:39 < BjornT: me 10:04:40 < abentley: me 10:04:43 < henninge: me 10:04:43 < bac: me 10:04:45 < noodles775: moi 10:04:49 < sinzui: me 10:04:52 < gary_poster: me 10:05:05 < EdwinGrubbs: me 10:05:15 < henninge: noodles775: toi? 10:05:39 < flacoste: me 10:05:39 < noodles775: henninge: nah, it's just "Australish" 10:05:44 < adeuring: me 10:05:45 < intellectronica: me 10:05:48 < henninge: ;-) 10:06:38 < EdwinGrubbs: noodles775: instead of "ping" do you say "Oi!" 10:06:57 < noodles775: You got it Ezza ;) 10:07:07 > barry: deryck, salgado cprov bigjools danilo-afk allenap mars ping 10:07:15 > barry: [TOPIC] agenda 10:07:16 < MootBot: New Topic: agenda 10:07:17 < cprov: me 10:07:20 < allenap: me 10:07:20 < bigjools: meh 10:07:23 < deryck: me, sorry 10:07:23 < salgado: me 10:07:23 > barry: * Roll call 10:07:23 > barry: * Action items 10:07:23 > barry: * UI review call update 10:07:23 > barry: * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:07:26 > barry: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:07:29 > barry: * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda) 10:07:32 > barry: 10:07:36 > barry: 10:07:42 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items 10:07:43 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items 10:07:46 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items 10:07:47 < MootBot: New Topic: * Action items 10:07:54 > * barry thanks mootbot 10:08:02 > barry: * gary_poster and barry will transfer review guidelines from the old wiki and old old wiki to the new wiki 10:08:17 < gary_poster: postponed to post 3.0 10:08:24 -!- danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos has joined #launchpad-meeting 10:08:25 > barry: sorry, gary_poster asked me to get mrevell a list of pages to pull over but 3.0 is swamping me 10:08:28 < danilos: me 10:08:32 > barry: what gary_poster said :) 10:08:41 > barry: * cprov to update guidelines to clarify how code sensitive to env changes should be written 10:08:52 < cprov: oi! sorry I forgot about it. 10:09:17 > barry: cprov: we'll just carry that one over. i'm hoping we'll be less stressed after this week or maybe next 10:09:21 > barry: so no worries 10:09:34 < cprov: barry: sure, thanks. 10:09:37 > barry: [TOPIC] * UI review call update 10:09:37 > barry: 10:09:38 < MootBot: New Topic: * UI review call update 10:09:57 > barry: let me see if beuno is around... 10:10:21 < intellectronica: i think he's on holiday 10:10:29 > barry: intellectronica: ah. 10:10:32 > barry: right 10:10:36 < intellectronica: one important thing we discussed is how overburdened ui reviewers are 10:11:03 > barry: intellectronica: yes. and that this is an extra-ordinary time because of the push for 3.0 10:11:15 < intellectronica: to make it a bit easier until 3.0 is out, it's ok for people to land very simple changes (mechanical conversions and such) with ui=rs 10:11:18 > barry: beuno did say he was going to start working with a few people to get them ui graduated 10:11:24 < intellectronica: i think martin has writted to the list about that 10:11:33 > barry: yep. intellectronica thanks 10:12:22 > barry: that's all i can think of. intellectronica, anything else? 10:12:47 < intellectronica: i think that's it 10:12:50 < sinzui: Does everyone know that Blueprint pages are ui=rs? 10:13:12 -!- jmux!n=jmux@lhm246.muenchen.de has joined #launchpad-meeting 10:13:26 < noodles775: Woops, I just landed the sprint-add mechanical change with r=rs and ui=rs... sorry. 10:13:50 > barry: noodles775: right, still need a normal code review 10:13:56 < noodles775: Yep. 10:14:06 < bigjools: yeehaw 10:14:10 < intellectronica: sinzui: does that include volunteers? i bet there are many people out there itching to give us a hand with blueprint conversions. if that happens, can we land their changes without a proper ui review? 10:14:20 < sinzui: noodles775: That is better than me. I was juggling 4 branches yesterday. I landed one by accident. I am glad bac approved it 10:14:29 < noodles775: heh 10:15:01 > barry: i promised bac to land one thru ec2 and then promptly pqm-submitted it ;) 10:15:19 < sinzui: intellectronica: I do not have an answer 10:15:35 > barry: intellectronica: for volunteers, we still have to land the branch so i think a quick look couldn't hurt 10:15:37 < flacoste: intellectronica, sinzui: if they are mechanical changes, yes 10:15:52 < flacoste: i still think we should do a UI review for non-mechanical blueprints UI change 10:15:53 < danilos: intellectronica, I've got 12 templates converted to generic-edit for blueprints, already reviewed, should land soon 10:15:57 < flacoste: doesn't need to be much involved 10:16:06 < danilos: intellectronica, i.e. make that 12 templates removed and replaced with generic-edit.pt 10:16:08 < intellectronica: danilos: you're a star 10:16:09 < sinzui: intellectronica: blueprint 2.0 pages will not work when we release, so doing a bad conversion job fixes more than will be broken in production 10:16:18 < flacoste: there is only 12 unclaimed blueprints templates on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion 10:17:32 > barry: moving on.. 10:17:46 < sinzui: The two blueprint pages I converted yesterday had whitespace issues. text overlapped text. I had to make some markup changes to make the page layout 10:18:00 > barry: [TOPIC] * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:18:00 > barry: 10:18:01 < MootBot: New Topic: * new heading/title rules [barry] 10:18:20 > barry: i want to make sure any question you have about the new rules get answered 10:18:46 < danilos: barry, excellent 10:18:50 > barry: i know that the breadcrumbs/titles/headers need some refinement, but that will have to wait until after 3.0. the rules we have now will not change until after 3.0 10:19:05 > barry: so... ask your questions now! :) 10:19:08 < bigjools: plz barry just fix everythin kthxbye 10:19:24 < noodles775: barry: did you see deryck's email? 10:19:24 < flacoste: that's actually a job for salgado :-) 10:19:48 < deryck: barry, beuno, and I talked off list about breadcrumbs in titles a lot already 10:19:53 > barry: noodles775: yes, but only in the sense that it made my inbox grow larger. i haven't read it yet. but deryck and i spoke this morning 10:20:01 < noodles775: Great. 10:20:08 > barry: salgado is the breadcrumb man 10:20:19 < deryck: I just replied to my own mail with the results of our call 10:20:35 > barry: deryck: cool, thanks 10:20:43 < deryck: np 10:20:56 < danilos: ok, so, I am wondering about the h2/h1 issue... it seems the h2 with context.title is gone on most pages? is that expected? 10:21:04 < danilos: or, how do we make it appear again? 10:21:06 > barry: danilos: yes 10:21:14 < noodles775: Add view.label? 10:21:15 < danilos: (sorry if I didn't pay close attention to the new rules page) 10:21:27 > barry: noodles775: yes, it can be something like: 10:21:29 > barry: @property 10:21:39 > barry: def label(self): return self.context.label 10:21:40 < danilos: noodles775, right, I am looking into figuring these out for all the translations page now that we've basically got everything converted 10:22:09 > barry: noodles775: i would like to make that simpler (e.g. fall back to context.title) but not for 3.0 10:22:30 < noodles775: Yep - that'd be great! 10:22:32 < bigjools: we get rs=barry for fixing stuff like this I think you said? 10:22:39 < intellectronica: barry: maybe have a mixin that does that? 10:22:53 > barry: intellectronica: i think it can be done on LaunchpadView and/or base-layout.pt 10:23:15 > barry: bigjools: sorry, what was the "stuff like this" in that sentence? 10:23:53 < bigjools: barry: fixing existing 3.0 changed pages to conform to the new heading rules 10:24:01 > barry: bigjools: right, +1 10:24:17 < bigjools: we were waiting for your branch to land so we could do that 10:24:54 > barry: yep. now you can jfdi:) 10:25:15 < bigjools: thanks for the extra work :) 10:25:40 > barry: :) 10:25:51 < flacoste: actually, it's less work 10:26:04 < flacoste: because otherwise, there were tweaks on a per-page basis 10:26:09 < bigjools: for future changes, yes 10:26:09 < flacoste: now, it's the same thing everywhere 10:26:21 > barry: updating pagetests might not be fun 10:26:32 < * flacoste:26:38 > barry: which is actually the main reason we aren't going to change the <title> rules until post 3.0 10:27:02 < * bigjools:27:26 < sinzui: A lot of converted pages appear to be using pagetitle :( 10:28:14 > barry: please everyone, take a healthy swing with a large baseball bat at pagetitles.py 10:28:15 < sinzui: We'll know who cheated on day 1 of week 0 when pagetitles is deleted. 10:28:27 < deryck: heh 10:28:59 < * bigjools:29:15 < * sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net uses a small cannonette 10:29:18 > barry: bigjools: just give it two healthy swings then 10:29:23 < bigjools: :) 10:29:35 < sinzui: um 10:29:45 > barry: anything else on titles/headings/breadcrumbs? 10:30:16 > barry: cool 10:30:17 < sinzui: our designer is not available and I have not seen a design for the front page. Are we changing the page macro and declaring victory? 10:31:19 < bigjools: while we're on the subject of UI, some of the two-column <dl>s are a bit borked if an item uses an icon 10:31:48 < sinzui: leading icon? 10:32:02 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools looks for an example 10:32:16 < bigjools: yes leading 10:33:47 < bigjools: sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/ 10:34:00 < bigjools: anyway, OT for this meeting I guess 10:34:21 > barry: k, let's move on 10:34:24 > barry: [TOPIC] * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:34:25 < MootBot: New Topic: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry] 10:34:48 > barry: fairly simple one i think. most of our css in styles-3-0.css are 4 space indents 10:35:01 < bigjools: JFDI 10:35:24 > barry: any objections to keeping 4 space indents? 10:35:43 > barry: 5 10:35:47 > barry: 4 10:35:48 < noodles775: Nope - guessing it was just 2-spaces from pre-minimization days? 10:35:50 > barry: 3 10:35:55 < sinzui: keeping it? I intentionally set it to 4, who put something else 10:36:10 > barry: sinzui: dunno 10:36:21 < noodles775: sinzui: there's old stuff in style.css with 2 spaces I think. 10:36:26 > barry: rs=me on fixing them for the next person to touch the file 10:36:46 > barry: 4 spaces it is 10:36:48 > barry: [TOPIC] peanut gallery 10:36:49 < MootBot: New Topic: peanut gallery 10:36:50 < sinzui: There should not be. stuff requires porting from specific CSS to generic 10:36:55 < * bigjools:37:02 > barry: bigjools: shuck it! 10:37:05 < bigjools: ok 10:37:22 < bigjools: real quick, but I sometimes see some obtuse page test code that does this: 10:37:36 < sinzui: There should not be a zillion p.<class_that_is really_useful_but_can_only_be_used_by_paragrpahs> 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> browser.getLink("xxx").click() 10:37:36 < bigjools: >>> print browser.url 10:37:36 < bigjools: http://launchpad.dev/blah 10:37:36 < abentley: bigjools: Then take some pictures of it, and you'll have your own peanut gallery. 10:37:44 < bigjools: which causes an unnecessary page load 10:37:50 < bigjools: you can just do: 10:37:52 < bigjools: >>> print browser.getLink("xxx").url 10:37:54 < bigjools: instead 10:38:04 < bigjools: EOT 10:38:31 < BjornT: bigjools: shouldn't the test make sure that the link leads to the right page? 10:38:33 > barry: bigjools: oh, you mean if you aren't doing anything else on the target page? 10:38:47 < bigjools: BjornT: they are the exact same test 10:39:01 < sinzui: bigjools: barry: I think there is a misunderstanding here 10:39:11 < bigjools: barry: yes 10:39:12 < BjornT: bigjools: no. the first one makes sure the link isn't a 404. your version doesn't 10:39:41 < bigjools: BjornT: if the test is doing nothing else, my version is better. Loading a page and doing nothing is a bad test. 10:39:47 < sinzui: I do what bigjools is suggesting when I test that a view provides expected content, but a story is about link traversal 10:40:03 < BjornT: bigjools: well, it still depends on the intention of the test 10:40:05 < bigjools: it should ideally have a separate test for that page 10:40:09 < bigjools: BjornT: yes, agreed 10:40:18 < bigjools: but it's just something to look out for 10:40:29 < bigjools: I am on the rampage against slow tests 10:40:50 < bigjools: and this is low-hanging fruit for a big gain 10:41:06 < sinzui: bigjools: most of the slow tests are pagetests that are checking the contract of a view. Covert them to a unittest or a doctest of the view. 10:41:29 > barry: sinzui: +1 view tests rock 10:41:31 < bigjools: yes, I think that's a separate issue to this though 10:42:02 < bigjools: if another page test file tests the page, you don't need to load it somewhere else just to check a link exists 10:42:19 < bigjools: anyway, that's it 10:42:31 > barry: bigjools: cool thanks 10:42:39 > barry: 3m left. anyone else? 10:42:43 < sinzui: bigjools: right. That is why I argue we have far too many pagetests 10:43:31 < BjornT: bigjools: well, if some other test makes sure you can navigate to that page, yes. that's what really is happening there. from page A we can reach page B 10:44:33 > barry: okay, i think we're done. 10:44:36 > barry: #endmeeting asiapac -------