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ReviewerMeeting20090916
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summary
=======
logs
====
ameu
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::
10:04:19 > barry: #startmeeting
10:04:19 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: Hey barry!
10:04:20 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: Meeting started at 09:04. The chair is barry.
10:04:20 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
10:04:36 > barry: hello everyone and welcome to this week's ameu reviewer's meeting. who's here today?
10:04:39 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: me
10:04:40 < abentley!n=abentley@CPE001a7046c8f9-CM001e6b233d5a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com: me
10:04:43 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: me
10:04:43 < bac!n=bac@canonical/launchpad/bac: me
10:04:45 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: moi
10:04:49 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: me
10:04:52 < gary_poster!n=anonymou@cpe-069-134-211-019.nc.res.rr.com: me
10:05:05 < EdwinGrubbs!n=egrubbs@canonical/launchpad/edwingrubbs: me
10:05:15 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: noodles775: toi?
10:05:39 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: me
10:05:39 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: henninge: nah, it's just "Australish"
10:05:44 < adeuring!n=abel@Fa0fb.f.ppp-pool.de: me
10:05:45 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: me
10:05:48 < henninge!n=henning@canonical/launchpad/henninge: ;-)
10:06:38 < EdwinGrubbs!n=egrubbs@canonical/launchpad/edwingrubbs: noodles775: instead of "ping" do you say "Oi!"
10:06:57 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: You got it Ezza ;)
10:07:07 > barry: deryck, salgado cprov bigjools danilo-afk allenap mars ping
10:07:15 > barry: [TOPIC] agenda
10:07:16 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: agenda
10:07:17 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: me
10:07:20 < allenap!n=gavin@89.16.172.38: me
10:07:20 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: meh
10:07:23 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: me, sorry
10:07:23 < salgado!n=salgado@canonical/launchpad/salgado: me
10:07:23 > barry: * Roll call
10:07:23 > barry: * Action items
10:07:23 > barry: * UI review call update
10:07:23 > barry: * new heading/title rules [barry]
10:07:26 > barry: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry]
10:07:29 > barry: * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
10:07:32 > barry:
10:07:36 > barry:
10:07:42 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items
10:07:43 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * Action items
10:07:46 > barry: [TOPIC] * Action items
10:07:47 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * Action items
10:07:54 > * barry thanks mootbot
10:08:02 > barry: * gary_poster and barry will transfer review guidelines from the old wiki and old old wiki to the new wiki
10:08:17 < gary_poster!n=anonymou@cpe-069-134-211-019.nc.res.rr.com: postponed to post 3.0
10:08:24 -!- danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos has joined #launchpad-meeting
10:08:25 > barry: sorry, gary_poster asked me to get mrevell a list of pages to pull over but 3.0 is swamping me
10:08:28 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: me
10:08:32 > barry: what gary_poster said :)
10:08:41 > barry: * cprov to update guidelines to clarify how code sensitive to env changes should be written
10:08:52 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: oi! sorry I forgot about it.
10:09:17 > barry: cprov: we'll just carry that one over. i'm hoping we'll be less stressed after this week or maybe next
10:09:21 > barry: so no worries
10:09:34 < cprov!n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov: barry: sure, thanks.
10:09:37 > barry: [TOPIC] * UI review call update
10:09:37 > barry:
10:09:38 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * UI review call update
10:09:57 > barry: let me see if beuno is around...
10:10:21 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think he's on holiday
10:10:29 > barry: intellectronica: ah.
10:10:32 > barry: right
10:10:36 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: one important thing we discussed is how overburdened ui reviewers are
10:11:03 > barry: intellectronica: yes. and that this is an extra-ordinary time because of the push for 3.0
10:11:15 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: to make it a bit easier until 3.0 is out, it's ok for people to land very simple changes (mechanical conversions and such) with ui=rs
10:11:18 > barry: beuno did say he was going to start working with a few people to get them ui graduated
10:11:24 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think martin has writted to the list about that
10:11:33 > barry: yep. intellectronica thanks
10:12:22 > barry: that's all i can think of. intellectronica, anything else?
10:12:47 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: i think that's it
10:12:50 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: Does everyone know that Blueprint pages are ui=rs?
10:13:12 -!- jmux!n=jmux@lhm246.muenchen.de has joined #launchpad-meeting
10:13:26 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Woops, I just landed the sprint-add mechanical change with r=rs and ui=rs... sorry.
10:13:50 > barry: noodles775: right, still need a normal code review
10:13:56 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Yep.
10:14:06 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yeehaw
10:14:10 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: sinzui: does that include volunteers? i bet there are many people out there itching to give us a hand with blueprint conversions. if that happens, can we land their changes without a proper ui review?
10:14:20 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: noodles775: That is better than me. I was juggling 4 branches yesterday. I landed one by accident. I am glad bac approved it
10:14:29 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: heh
10:15:01 > barry: i promised bac to land one thru ec2 and then promptly pqm-submitted it ;)
10:15:19 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: intellectronica: I do not have an answer
10:15:35 > barry: intellectronica: for volunteers, we still have to land the branch so i think a quick look couldn't hurt
10:15:37 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: intellectronica, sinzui: if they are mechanical changes, yes
10:15:52 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: i still think we should do a UI review for non-mechanical blueprints UI change
10:15:53 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: intellectronica, I've got 12 templates converted to generic-edit for blueprints, already reviewed, should land soon
10:15:57 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: doesn't need to be much involved
10:16:06 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: intellectronica, i.e. make that 12 templates removed and replaced with generic-edit.pt
10:16:08 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: danilos: you're a star
10:16:09 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: intellectronica: blueprint 2.0 pages will not work when we release, so doing a bad conversion job fixes more than will be broken in production
10:16:18 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: there is only 12 unclaimed blueprints templates on https://dev.launchpad.net/VersionThreeDotO/BlueprintsConversion
10:17:32 > barry: moving on..
10:17:46 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: The two blueprint pages I converted yesterday had whitespace issues. text overlapped text. I had to make some markup changes to make the page layout
10:18:00 > barry: [TOPIC] * new heading/title rules [barry]
10:18:00 > barry:
10:18:01 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * new heading/title rules [barry]
10:18:20 > barry: i want to make sure any question you have about the new rules get answered
10:18:46 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: barry, excellent
10:18:50 > barry: i know that the breadcrumbs/titles/headers need some refinement, but that will have to wait until after 3.0. the rules we have now will not change until after 3.0
10:19:05 > barry: so... ask your questions now! :)
10:19:08 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: plz barry just fix everythin kthxbye
10:19:24 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: barry: did you see deryck's email?
10:19:24 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: that's actually a job for salgado :-)
10:19:48 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: barry, beuno, and I talked off list about breadcrumbs in titles a lot already
10:19:53 > barry: noodles775: yes, but only in the sense that it made my inbox grow larger. i haven't read it yet. but deryck and i spoke this morning
10:20:01 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Great.
10:20:08 > barry: salgado is the breadcrumb man
10:20:19 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: I just replied to my own mail with the results of our call
10:20:35 > barry: deryck: cool, thanks
10:20:43 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: np
10:20:56 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: ok, so, I am wondering about the h2/h1 issue... it seems the h2 with context.title is gone on most pages? is that expected?
10:21:04 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: or, how do we make it appear again?
10:21:06 > barry: danilos: yes
10:21:14 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Add view.label?
10:21:15 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: (sorry if I didn't pay close attention to the new rules page)
10:21:27 > barry: noodles775: yes, it can be something like:
10:21:29 > barry: @property
10:21:39 > barry: def label(self): return self.context.label
10:21:40 < danilos!n=danilo@canonical/launchpad/danilos: noodles775, right, I am looking into figuring these out for all the translations page now that we've basically got everything converted
10:22:09 > barry: noodles775: i would like to make that simpler (e.g. fall back to context.title) but not for 3.0
10:22:30 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Yep - that'd be great!
10:22:32 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: we get rs=barry for fixing stuff like this I think you said?
10:22:39 < intellectronica!n=tom@intellectronica.net: barry: maybe have a mixin that does that?
10:22:53 > barry: intellectronica: i think it can be done on LaunchpadView and/or base-layout.pt
10:23:15 > barry: bigjools: sorry, what was the "stuff like this" in that sentence?
10:23:53 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: barry: fixing existing 3.0 changed pages to conform to the new heading rules
10:24:01 > barry: bigjools: right, +1
10:24:17 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: we were waiting for your branch to land so we could do that
10:24:54 > barry: yep. now you can jfdi! :)
10:25:15 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: thanks for the extra work :)
10:25:40 > barry: :)
10:25:51 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: actually, it's less work
10:26:04 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: because otherwise, there were tweaks on a per-page basis
10:26:09 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: for future changes, yes
10:26:09 < flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste: now, it's the same thing everywhere
10:26:21 > barry: updating pagetests might not be fun
10:26:32 < * flacoste!n=francis@canonical/launchpad/flacoste mumble about approval tests
10:26:38 > barry: which is actually the main reason we aren't going to change the <title> rules until post 3.0
10:27:02 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools dreams of killing pagetitles.py
10:27:26 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: A lot of converted pages appear to be using pagetitle :(
10:28:14 > barry: please everyone, take a healthy swing with a large baseball bat at pagetitles.py
10:28:15 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: We'll know who cheated on day 1 of week 0 when pagetitles is deleted.
10:28:27 < deryck!n=deryck@samba/team/deryck: heh
10:28:59 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools uses a cricket bat instead
10:29:15 < * sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net uses a small cannonette
10:29:18 > barry: bigjools: just give it two healthy swings then
10:29:23 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: :)
10:29:35 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: um
10:29:45 > barry: anything else on titles/headings/breadcrumbs?
10:30:16 > barry: cool
10:30:17 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: our designer is not available and I have not seen a design for the front page. Are we changing the page macro and declaring victory?
10:31:19 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: while we're on the subject of UI, some of the two-column <dl>s are a bit borked if an item uses an icon
10:31:48 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: leading icon?
10:32:02 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools looks for an example
10:32:16 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yes leading
10:33:47 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: sinzui: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/
10:34:00 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: anyway, OT for this meeting I guess
10:34:21 > barry: k, let's move on
10:34:24 > barry: [TOPIC] * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry]
10:34:25 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: * 4-space indents for CSS styles [barry]
10:34:48 > barry: fairly simple one i think. most of our css in styles-3-0.css are 4 space indents
10:35:01 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: JFDI
10:35:24 > barry: any objections to keeping 4 space indents?
10:35:43 > barry: 5
10:35:47 > barry: 4
10:35:48 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: Nope - guessing it was just 2-spaces from pre-minimization days?
10:35:50 > barry: 3
10:35:55 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: keeping it? I intentionally set it to 4, who put something else
10:36:10 > barry: sinzui: dunno
10:36:21 < noodles775!n=miken@canonical/launchpad/noodles775: sinzui: there's old stuff in style.css with 2 spaces I think.
10:36:26 > barry: rs=me on fixing them for the next person to touch the file
10:36:46 > barry: 4 spaces it is
10:36:48 > barry: [TOPIC] peanut gallery
10:36:49 < MootBot!n=MootBot@unaffiliated/mootbot: New Topic: peanut gallery
10:36:50 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: There should not be. stuff requires porting from specific CSS to generic
10:36:55 < * bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools has a peanut
10:37:02 > barry: bigjools: shuck it!
10:37:05 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: ok
10:37:22 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: real quick, but I sometimes see some obtuse page test code that does this:
10:37:36 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: There should not be a zillion p.<class_that_is really_useful_but_can_only_be_used_by_paragrpahs>
10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> browser.getLink("xxx").click()
10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> print browser.url
10:37:36 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: http://launchpad.dev/blah
10:37:36 < abentley!n=abentley@CPE001a7046c8f9-CM001e6b233d5a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com: bigjools: Then take some pictures of it, and you'll have your own peanut gallery.
10:37:44 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: which causes an unnecessary page load
10:37:50 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: you can just do:
10:37:52 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: >>> print browser.getLink("xxx").url
10:37:54 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: instead
10:38:04 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: EOT
10:38:31 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: shouldn't the test make sure that the link leads to the right page?
10:38:33 > barry: bigjools: oh, you mean if you aren't doing anything else on the target page?
10:38:47 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: they are the exact same test
10:39:01 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: barry: I think there is a misunderstanding here
10:39:11 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: barry: yes
10:39:12 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: no. the first one makes sure the link isn't a 404. your version doesn't
10:39:41 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: if the test is doing nothing else, my version is better. Loading a page and doing nothing is a bad test.
10:39:47 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: I do what bigjools is suggesting when I test that a view provides expected content, but a story is about link traversal
10:40:03 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: well, it still depends on the intention of the test
10:40:05 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: it should ideally have a separate test for that page
10:40:09 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: BjornT: yes, agreed
10:40:18 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: but it's just something to look out for
10:40:29 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: I am on the rampage against slow tests
10:40:50 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: and this is low-hanging fruit for a big gain
10:41:06 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: most of the slow tests are pagetests that are checking the contract of a view. Covert them to a unittest or a doctest of the view.
10:41:29 > barry: sinzui: +1 view tests rock
10:41:31 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: yes, I think that's a separate issue to this though
10:42:02 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: if another page test file tests the page, you don't need to load it somewhere else just to check a link exists
10:42:19 < bigjools!n=quassel@canonical/launchpad/bigjools: anyway, that's it
10:42:31 > barry: bigjools: cool thanks
10:42:39 > barry: 3m left. anyone else?
10:42:43 < sinzui!n=sinzui@pool-71-178-242-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net: bigjools: right. That is why I argue we have far too many pagetests
10:43:31 < BjornT!n=bjorn@canonical/launchpad/BjornT: bigjools: well, if some other test makes sure you can navigate to that page, yes. that's what really is happening there. from page A we can reach page B
10:44:33 > barry: okay, i think we're done.
10:44:36 > barry: #endmeeting
asiapac
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launchpad development